Larry Hansch brings Nancy Sue Ryan a cup of coffee.

Show managers say they are finding that with the popular split/combined and multiple judge format shows, it works for them to hire a husband/wife judging couple to officiate at their shows.

There are several advantages for a show to hire a couple – they can share a hotel room and they can cut travel expenses substantially if the couple drives.

Larry Hansch and Nancy Sue Ryan, of Nocona, Texas are one of the several married couples who both hold cards and enjoy the opportunity to judge together at American Quarter Horse Association shows.

“As busy as we are with our business, it’s actually nice to go somewhere and spend time together without the day-to-day responsibilities of the home business,” Hansch said. “We met judging. It wasn’t a detriment to the relationship at all to judge together. Being able to work together is a bonus for us.”

“I judge a lot, and Nancy Sue stays home with the mares and babies. She shows or judges and I stay home and take care of things. We both really enjoy judging and, so in addition to judging together, we get some social time together, without the needs of daily life.”

“We are professional enough that we do not criticize each other or try to influence any judging decisions. That’s where you could get into trouble (in a couple relationship). I know she is fair about everything and she believes the same of me.”

Each respects the other and they find they work well together.

“We look forward to judging together,” Hansch said, “and, in fact, if one of us gets a call to judge we will suggest the other depending on availability.”

There have been times, they admit that their cards have been very similar. And, there have been days where their cards were very different.

John and Betsy Tuckey judge together at a show in Indiana.

Sometimes, Hansch says, they may find themselves visiting at the end of a show and Nancy Sue may ask him “What didn’t you like about that XX particular horse, it was clearly the best horse in the pen.”  To which Larry may respond, “Yes, I would agree but when it broke and missed a lead right in front of me I couldn’t use it.”

“I don’t find it any easier or harder to judge with Nancy Sue than anyone else,” Hansch said. “When we walk into that pen I believe we are equal, just as any other judge. I believe that AQHA and APHA both do a really great job of educating and promoting their judges. Our styles do not conflict.”

But any time you have two opinions, there is the potential for differing views. That would go for any pair of judges in the arena though, not just for spouses.

Hansch says they generally find themselves fairly close in performance classes, but Larry says they can be a little bit different in the Equitation, Showmanship and Horsemanship, when it comes down to small differences or pet peeves.

“In the Equitation we’re probably closer to each other than in Horsemanship or Showmanship.”

For instance, in Showmanship pattern backup, Nancy Sue will not tolerate if the exhibitor crowds the front of that horse at all. Larry says he doesn’t want them to be in front of the horse, but if they come close to that gray area he’s probably more lenient about that specific detail where she’s very strict on it.

Nancy Sue has said to him at the end of the day “Boy, we were really close all afternoon.”

“You sort of sound surprised at that – were you close to me or was I close to you?” Larry chides.

Have Hansch and Ryan ever had a conflict between them while judging? Larry sort of chuckled as he remembered a time when the couple was judging a baby futurity class, with three colts in it.

With Larry’s background in Halter, he really appreciates a quality horse. He recalled a baby colt whose legs he says he could not appreciate, so he used that filly in third place. Nancy Sue used it first. She asked him after the class “How could you use that baby in third when it was by far the prettiest. I know it might not have had the greatest legs, but I know it will probably improve as it grows and it will always be prettier than the other two.”

Larry’s answer to her: “That is very good insight, and very futuristic to look at that foal and know that the legs may improve as it grows. But we’re judging the legs today, and today I can’t let them win.”

Larry said he knew she was right in her line of thinking and he was right in his, when he told her “If that filly grows up and her legs improve she will probably always beat the other two. But you’re just very wrong today.”

What was Nancy Sue’s response? “She sighed, shook her head and we agreed to disagree on that point,” he said.

What can be the biggest challenge in judging together with your spouse? The biggest challenge Hansch sees for those couples operating a business at home is for both of them to be gone at the same time.

“For us, during foaling season, it’s just about impossible to pull Nancy Sue away from home, even just to run to town for lunch,” he admits. It might be easier for just one to be gone at a time, so that’s probably why they enjoy going together when they can.

Hansch says they love going to Del Mar, California to judge together.

“We’ve been a couple of times,” he said. “The weather, the area, the professionalism of the people has all been terrific. They always try to get the show done early enough to enjoy an evening meal and social time, so maybe that’s why we like it so much.”

For the exhibitor who assumes a husband/wife team will judge exactly the same, or will confer on their decisions. Hansch says his response would be “whoever gave you that assumption needs to check their facts.”

“I know probably a half dozen married couples that I’ve judged with, none of them have had those thoughts when judging,” he said. “We don’t go into that arena with preconceived notions. I have judged with John and Betsy Tuckey; many times they may be different in their cards. That’s just different personalities and different opinions.”

“The last thing we want to do is to walk into the show pen with preconceived decisions. When we’re at home we’re talking about day-to-day life and business decisions. The horse shows are a getaway for us.”

Rebecca Halverson

For Wayne and Rebecca Halvorson, married AQHA judges from Guthrie, Oklahoma, life at home is the main reason they don’t judge many shows together.

“Before the kids got so busy with their lives, we took shows to judge together,” said Rebecca. “But when the kids got old enough to be busy with their sports and activities, it just demanded that one of us be home with them.” Rebecca said they did enjoy working together, but being parents to their three children was more important. “We like to be there for their games and events. They’ve grown up so fast, we didn’t want to miss that.”

John and Betsy Tuckey, of Liberty, Kentucky, judge approximately eight to 10 shows a year together, and about the same separately.

“We love it,” Betsy said. “It’s one of our favorite things to do together.”

They are so compatible that they say their judging picks can be similar or even the same, probably because they have such similar personalities.

“We are best friends, and we love being together, so we enjoy judging together very much. It’s fun to compare what happens and how we saw something.”

Tuckey sees the definite advantage to shows hiring husbands and wives to judge for their financial benefit.

“Especially if we drive,” she says. “If it’s six hours or so or less, we’ll definitely drive instead of fly. That right there saves them a bunch of money, and it’s better for us too.”

When the show is over on Friday night, Tuckeys can start their drive home and split the driving duty, saving the show the hotel expense and getting them home that much sooner.

“It also keeps us out of the airport,” she laughs. “And airfares have gotten so high, that again, it helps the shows.”

Bob and Debbie Kail travel home from judging together.

Bob and Debbie Kail, of Scottsdale, Arizona, are another married couple who frequently judge together.

“We probably judge five to 10 shows a year together,” Debbie said. “We enjoy traveling together and getting to work together. This year, we’ve driven to more shows just so we can work in some fun time, like in New Mexico and Southern Arizona.”

The Kails had the opportunity to judge together in Australia a few years ago.

“We would have never taken a vacation trip there, but we took the opportunity to judge together and stayed an extra 10 days for us,” Debbie said.

While the Kails may comment on their placings at the end of the day they find they don’t discuss the show much.

“Unless something funny or weird happens,” Debbie said. “I think there’s a big misconception that married judges discuss and compare horses at the show. That’s far from the truth. We go back to the hotel, clean up and go enjoy dinner.”

Kail said she believes that more influence on a judge’s perspective comes from their mentors and what and who they learned from, rather than who happens to be their spouse.

“Demographics enter into it,” she explained. “Where you come from certainly influences what you look for when judging horses, just as who taught you and what they taught you. The mentoring you get builds your ideals.”

Bob and Debbie worked for similar people and trained together for 34 years. They say they are going to look for a similar style more because of that, than just because they are married.”

“If we see the same thing, we’re probably going to be pretty close in our placings,” she said. But not every judge in the middle of the pen is looking at the exact same thing so it’s not automatic.I think it’s really important to keep the respect level very high for each other, both personally and professionally.”

That would go for any judges in the pen together, again not just married judges.

“We’ve been judging long enough that we’re both comfortable in our own skin,” Debbie said. “We don’t feel the need to discuss or compare how we judge and we respect each other.”

The Kails have a lot of friends who are married and judge together.

“We seem to have the same perspective about it,” she said. “We all enjoy traveling together and working with our spouses, we don’t worry if we match cards.”

“Bob and I had a great experience last year. Casey and April Devitt are good friends of ours from our California days. They moved to Kentucky and we’re in Scottsdale now so we don’t get to see them often. Last year, the four of us got to judge a show together and it was so much fun!”

“The only thing better than judging with your spouse is judging with your kid. I’ve gotten to judge with (son) Ryan a few times. The only other parent/child judge pair I can think of is Andrea and Sara Simons. Again, it’s fun to spend time together and, with a younger person, there’s a different perspective.”

Travel is a big part of judging horse shows, and anyone who has traveled much can agree there can be challenges with a simple trip from point A to point B, flying or driving.

“Who else can you depend on, other than your spouse?” Debbie asked. “You’re comfortable with each other, you have someone along with you that you like to be with, what’s better?”

And… you have someone to carry your bag, get you coffee or ice from the ice machine.

The Other Side

Show managers are finding definite advantages to hiring couples to for their multi-judge shows. Trimming expenses is the biggest benefit to a show’s bottom line in hiring a couple that comes together rather than two separate individuals.

Michelle Forness, Show Manager with Broke Girls Equine Professional Event Management, says the biggest advantage for a show to hire spouses to judge together is the financial savings.

“It’s especially true when we are running a show for an affiliate or a non-profit group that really needs to keep their expenses down as much as possible,” Forness said. “By hiring a husband and wife to judge together, you immediately cut out a lot of travel expense, especially if they drive. Even if they fly, you save double driving to the airport and parking. And you eliminate one hotel room when they can room together. It’s a great way to get two very good judges and reduce your expenses at the same time.”

Occasionally, Forness hears exhibitors may think that spouses won’t vary much in their placings, or that having a spouse judge with them may somehow influence that judge’s picks. She says that’s actually very far from the truth.

“I can tell you that what I have observed from the gate is that when we have spouses judging together, especially with other judges too, many times the married couple will be farther apart on their cards than with the others. It’s weird, but it very seldom happens that a couple picks the same exact horses.”

Forness confirms that the financial benefit to hiring spouses to judge a show together is the primary consideration when hiring multiple judges for a show.

“The biggest benefit is that financial savings, and today, that’s a really important benefit when putting on a show,” she said.

Karen Kennedy, show manager and coordinator from Ft. Smith, Arkansas, also considers hiring spouses as judges for multi-judge shows, like the World Wide Paint Horse Congress.

“It is a cost saving feature to hire couples (married or not),” she said. “If they are driving, you only have one travel expense. They share a hotel room.” Eliminating some of the travel expenses can go a long way towards a show’s profitability.

Some exhibitors may not like to show to spouses.

“They may feel like they are going to get the same opinion from both if they are married,” Kennedy said. “But I don’t think this is the case. I’ve seen many results where the placings can be totally different from a husband/wife.”

Judging comes down to what that particular judge saw that particular moment that particular day. There may be two judges standing in the middle of the pen, married or not, who are going to appreciate the same type of horse. But unless they are looking at every moment exactly the same, there is a good chance that they may pin the class differently from each other.

In a time when shows must be careful with their expenses, hiring spouses or couples is an easy and excellent way to reduce expenses while hiring quality, qualified judges for their show.  While it might not qualify as a “date night” for the couple, it does make good financial sense for horse show managers producing shows.